<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Those Who Labor in the Lord</title>
	<atom:link href="http://patrickmead.net/2008/08/29/those-who-labor-in-the-lord/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://patrickmead.net/2008/08/29/those-who-labor-in-the-lord/</link>
	<description>Just another TheoBloggers Online Community weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 23:15:07 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: barbarb fagin</title>
		<link>http://patrickmead.net/2008/08/29/those-who-labor-in-the-lord/comment-page-1/#comment-4257</link>
		<dc:creator>barbarb fagin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 05:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patrickmead.net/?p=375#comment-4257</guid>
		<description>i really need a woman devotional bible please. im&#039; try so hard to stay in the word of god i dont have any money at this.can yall&#039;me please thanks. i need big print so i can see god bless yall&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i really need a woman devotional bible please. im&#8217; try so hard to stay in the word of god i dont have any money at this.can yall&#8217;me please thanks. i need big print so i can see god bless yall&#8217;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bradshaw</title>
		<link>http://patrickmead.net/2008/08/29/those-who-labor-in-the-lord/comment-page-1/#comment-4256</link>
		<dc:creator>bradshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 08:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patrickmead.net/?p=375#comment-4256</guid>
		<description>Lord send us a preacher poor and humble. You keep him humble and we will keep him poor. Amen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lord send us a preacher poor and humble. You keep him humble and we will keep him poor. Amen</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://patrickmead.net/2008/08/29/those-who-labor-in-the-lord/comment-page-1/#comment-4255</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patrickmead.net/?p=375#comment-4255</guid>
		<description>Oi vey, Keith.  No offense intended.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oi vey, Keith.  No offense intended.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Keith Brenton</title>
		<link>http://patrickmead.net/2008/08/29/those-who-labor-in-the-lord/comment-page-1/#comment-4254</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Brenton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 22:50:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patrickmead.net/?p=375#comment-4254</guid>
		<description>Uh, Frank ... maybe you ought to lighten up on the Yiddish ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh, Frank &#8230; maybe you ought to lighten up on the Yiddish &#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Frank B.</title>
		<link>http://patrickmead.net/2008/08/29/those-who-labor-in-the-lord/comment-page-1/#comment-4253</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 21:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patrickmead.net/?p=375#comment-4253</guid>
		<description>Alex Campbell used to rag on preachers who accepted money.  Meanwhile, he was living in a big house on a farm, all of which were given to him by his wife&#039;s daddy. What a schmuck! And all those magazines he mailed out?  Never paid a dime for postage because he was the Bethany postmaster! The U.S. postal service took away that benefit probably because of him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex Campbell used to rag on preachers who accepted money.  Meanwhile, he was living in a big house on a farm, all of which were given to him by his wife&#8217;s daddy. What a schmuck! And all those magazines he mailed out?  Never paid a dime for postage because he was the Bethany postmaster! The U.S. postal service took away that benefit probably because of him.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tired Minister</title>
		<link>http://patrickmead.net/2008/08/29/those-who-labor-in-the-lord/comment-page-1/#comment-4252</link>
		<dc:creator>Tired Minister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 18:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patrickmead.net/?p=375#comment-4252</guid>
		<description>Just to jump back in here...

Some of the discussion has centered around money, but I have to say that&#039;s one area where my current church does pretty well.  It hasn&#039;t always been that way -- the first church I worked with did not give us enough to make ends meet.

My concerns lie with the things I mentioned above -- disrespect, criticism behind my back, unrealistic expectations, changing responsibilities, church politics, and the effect itâ€™s had on my family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to jump back in here&#8230;</p>
<p>Some of the discussion has centered around money, but I have to say that&#8217;s one area where my current church does pretty well.  It hasn&#8217;t always been that way &#8212; the first church I worked with did not give us enough to make ends meet.</p>
<p>My concerns lie with the things I mentioned above &#8212; disrespect, criticism behind my back, unrealistic expectations, changing responsibilities, church politics, and the effect itâ€™s had on my family.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://patrickmead.net/2008/08/29/those-who-labor-in-the-lord/comment-page-1/#comment-4251</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 17:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patrickmead.net/?p=375#comment-4251</guid>
		<description>I believe this problem is forcing out the younger future ministers too.  Most times, a younger man&#039;s first work is in a smaller congregation that does not pay well.  In the end, he goes into another line of work, because he has to feed his family.  Thank you for this post.

www.matthewsblog.waynesborochurchofchrist.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe this problem is forcing out the younger future ministers too.  Most times, a younger man&#8217;s first work is in a smaller congregation that does not pay well.  In the end, he goes into another line of work, because he has to feed his family.  Thank you for this post.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.matthewsblog.waynesborochurchofchrist.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.matthewsblog.waynesborochurchofchrist.org</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jr</title>
		<link>http://patrickmead.net/2008/08/29/those-who-labor-in-the-lord/comment-page-1/#comment-4250</link>
		<dc:creator>Jr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 14:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patrickmead.net/?p=375#comment-4250</guid>
		<description>I am starting school now to earn a Masters in Divinity.  I asked a minister I have looked up to about some guiding principles as I move forward and he said the following (I apologize for the length but I think its appropriate for this conversation):

&quot;Take care of business. Someone asked me recently: &quot;Is preaching a business or a ministry?&quot; I said: &quot;Both.&quot; I entered the ministry  at the same time as a good friend. He went to a Christian College and studied at the feet of a well-known pulpiteer who was mostly professor. The professor preached the virtues of sacrifice, telling the preacher boys how they ought to be living -- without doing it himself. In 3 years, my friend was burned out. Twelve years into my ministry I started requiring the hiring church to sign a contract. The contract specifies not only my salary, but the expectations on which my performance is to be evaluated. No preacher should be without one. Require enough salary to live on, and then some. It should be enough to allow you to buy your own home. The church should pay half your Social Security, and all your medical insurance (and you should own the medical policy, not the church). Preacher students have for years been advised to opt out of Social Security to &quot;save the Church money.&quot; This is foolish, unethical, and illegal. One day you will be old and in need of medicare. Opt out, and you will be without help. Get a good finance guy to help you. Stay away from credit, and never, never borrow money from the brethren. Ever. Never ever ask for a raise. The minute you do, that&#039;s all the brethren will ever remember: that you were always asking for more money and it brings your ministry into disrepute. If you aren&#039;t being taken care of, go where you will be, but never tell that&#039;s what you are doing. I have not asked for a raise in 31 years, and by following these rules, and with the Lord&#039;s blessing, I have been well cared for.
Your wife is your wife and the mother of your children. She is not responsible to provide the family&#039;s health insurance or to make up where the brethren leave off. Unless she is on the Church&#039;s payroll, actually receiving her own check, she doesn&#039;t work for the Church. I have never allowed my wife to be interviewed when I have applied to a congregation. I have refused to go to those who have required it. My wife has no problem handling herself in an interview, but by allowing her to be interviewed, it opens the door to thinking that the Church is getting two workers for the price of one. She is involved to the extent she can and wants to be. If they REALLY want to know how she is, they should contact the Church you are leaving for reference.&quot; -end-</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am starting school now to earn a Masters in Divinity.  I asked a minister I have looked up to about some guiding principles as I move forward and he said the following (I apologize for the length but I think its appropriate for this conversation):</p>
<p>&#8220;Take care of business. Someone asked me recently: &#8220;Is preaching a business or a ministry?&#8221; I said: &#8220;Both.&#8221; I entered the ministry  at the same time as a good friend. He went to a Christian College and studied at the feet of a well-known pulpiteer who was mostly professor. The professor preached the virtues of sacrifice, telling the preacher boys how they ought to be living &#8212; without doing it himself. In 3 years, my friend was burned out. Twelve years into my ministry I started requiring the hiring church to sign a contract. The contract specifies not only my salary, but the expectations on which my performance is to be evaluated. No preacher should be without one. Require enough salary to live on, and then some. It should be enough to allow you to buy your own home. The church should pay half your Social Security, and all your medical insurance (and you should own the medical policy, not the church). Preacher students have for years been advised to opt out of Social Security to &#8220;save the Church money.&#8221; This is foolish, unethical, and illegal. One day you will be old and in need of medicare. Opt out, and you will be without help. Get a good finance guy to help you. Stay away from credit, and never, never borrow money from the brethren. Ever. Never ever ask for a raise. The minute you do, that&#8217;s all the brethren will ever remember: that you were always asking for more money and it brings your ministry into disrepute. If you aren&#8217;t being taken care of, go where you will be, but never tell that&#8217;s what you are doing. I have not asked for a raise in 31 years, and by following these rules, and with the Lord&#8217;s blessing, I have been well cared for.<br />
Your wife is your wife and the mother of your children. She is not responsible to provide the family&#8217;s health insurance or to make up where the brethren leave off. Unless she is on the Church&#8217;s payroll, actually receiving her own check, she doesn&#8217;t work for the Church. I have never allowed my wife to be interviewed when I have applied to a congregation. I have refused to go to those who have required it. My wife has no problem handling herself in an interview, but by allowing her to be interviewed, it opens the door to thinking that the Church is getting two workers for the price of one. She is involved to the extent she can and wants to be. If they REALLY want to know how she is, they should contact the Church you are leaving for reference.&#8221; -end-</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: p.k.</title>
		<link>http://patrickmead.net/2008/08/29/those-who-labor-in-the-lord/comment-page-1/#comment-4249</link>
		<dc:creator>p.k.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 11:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patrickmead.net/?p=375#comment-4249</guid>
		<description>&quot;Regardless, it is good to finally have the chance to speak up for the ministers of small churches; those who bear the greatest burden in our fellowship and who are never on the lecture circuit, never invited to our large gatherings, and whose names never grace the latest bestseller. Without them, our religious tribe would collapse.&quot;

My father is/was one of those men.  Thank you for recognizing him!  Though he would never want the spotlight on him.

I grew up in one of those small, underpaying congregations.  He took the job in large part because he knew that the congregation would never be able to afford or attract many skilled candidates.  It was in the north and had less than 100 members.

Over the 25 years he preached there, sometimes there were those who saw the financial sacrifice and made what adjustments they could.  The military area we lived in meant the membership would change often along with the financial situation of the church.  Thankfully Mom&#039;s medical insurance was good and she struggled through the 25 year mark with the school district to ensure that insurance in their retirement and some income.  They lived there long enough to have paid off a mortgage and built plenty of equity - but they lived in the parsonage instead. I have heard people (not COC members) make snide remarks about the tax benefit preachers get from the &quot;Housing Allowance&quot; and it makes me furious.

Their sacrifice was not as great as some but more than their friends and some family members even know.

We should examine ourselves that we are giving as we should.  We should sacrifice and stand up for those ministers - we ask them to sacrifice and stand up for us.  And we should pray for those who serve in situations where changes are just not possible.  May God fill these people up with his Spirit in a special way!

I tried sending this earlier, not sure that I did so correctly as this is my first time commenting here.  As there are many who know me and my father and read this blog, please simply sign this P.K.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Regardless, it is good to finally have the chance to speak up for the ministers of small churches; those who bear the greatest burden in our fellowship and who are never on the lecture circuit, never invited to our large gatherings, and whose names never grace the latest bestseller. Without them, our religious tribe would collapse.&#8221;</p>
<p>My father is/was one of those men.  Thank you for recognizing him!  Though he would never want the spotlight on him.</p>
<p>I grew up in one of those small, underpaying congregations.  He took the job in large part because he knew that the congregation would never be able to afford or attract many skilled candidates.  It was in the north and had less than 100 members.</p>
<p>Over the 25 years he preached there, sometimes there were those who saw the financial sacrifice and made what adjustments they could.  The military area we lived in meant the membership would change often along with the financial situation of the church.  Thankfully Mom&#8217;s medical insurance was good and she struggled through the 25 year mark with the school district to ensure that insurance in their retirement and some income.  They lived there long enough to have paid off a mortgage and built plenty of equity &#8211; but they lived in the parsonage instead. I have heard people (not COC members) make snide remarks about the tax benefit preachers get from the &#8220;Housing Allowance&#8221; and it makes me furious.</p>
<p>Their sacrifice was not as great as some but more than their friends and some family members even know.</p>
<p>We should examine ourselves that we are giving as we should.  We should sacrifice and stand up for those ministers &#8211; we ask them to sacrifice and stand up for us.  And we should pray for those who serve in situations where changes are just not possible.  May God fill these people up with his Spirit in a special way!</p>
<p>I tried sending this earlier, not sure that I did so correctly as this is my first time commenting here.  As there are many who know me and my father and read this blog, please simply sign this P.K.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael R.</title>
		<link>http://patrickmead.net/2008/08/29/those-who-labor-in-the-lord/comment-page-1/#comment-4248</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 05:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patrickmead.net/?p=375#comment-4248</guid>
		<description>You might take a look at Abilene Christian&#039;s minister salary survey.

http://www.acu.edu/ministry/salarysurvey/index.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might take a look at Abilene Christian&#8217;s minister salary survey.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.acu.edu/ministry/salarysurvey/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.acu.edu/ministry/salarysurvey/index.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
