A Change of Pace — question 181
I had originally planned to answer a bunch of questions from the two blogs on 180, but there were so many “call and respond” comments that I think we’ve covered it… for now. We need to get to some of the other questions that have come in to tentpegsquestion@yahoo.com. Some of them are very important to the sender and I want to be fair to them. This question is a long one, but a lot of us have had to deal with it.
As I’ve responded over time to God’s leading to be more engaged in personal evangelism, I’ve recognized that focusing such discussions squarely on Jesus and his love, grace, mercy, etc. goes so much further than talking “church” stuff. One particular individual I’ve been working with has been clearly convicted, is for all practical purposes “converted” (visibly outwardly changed, and also in the things she speaks of from her heart), and is struggling with her own revelations of what she reads in scripture compared to the traditions of her own [Catholic] faith, which she loves dearly. I’m seeking an opportunity to have a more in-depth discussion about immersion baptism, and it’s something that she appears open to, though has not yet done. I expect that will come, hopefully soon.
My question is: how much should I be concerned about encouraging her to seek out a more scripturally based congregation of believers versus continuing in her heritage, particularly if she decides to be immersion baptized? Even asking the question bothers me, b/c I do not ask it from a standpoint of judging other faith groups; they are often taught many correct things that we have neglected in our own tribe; and I believe many from other tribes will enjoy eternity with God. Rather, I fret about the responsibility we have to new converts to teach scriptural practices, which are very important, but in my view do not carry the full weight of the basic Gospel message (maybe that’s wrong on my part?). I’ve witnessed too many folks be taught up to the point of baptism, and then forgotten about, often never returning to fellowship after the first few weeks. This disturbs me a great deal.
While my tendency is to believe that her convicted heart and the Holy Spirit would potentially lead her to seek out a very biblically based congregation, I struggle with how much of an influence I should exert to direct her to such a body of believers. Again, I do not seek to judge, or assume a position, but rather I desire a good conscience regarding completeness in evangelistic outreach.
My particular religious tribe long believed it was the Only True Church. A minority in my tribe still believe that, but most of us believe that salvation can be found in pews others than ours. If a person is convinced that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah, and comes to him in baptism (which I believe must be immersion, as I’ve detailed here before), then they are my brother or sister. However… our fellowship might not be very good if there remains a pile of disagreements between us. And it is also possible that one of us is far more pleasing to God in our religious life than the other (though we are really not the ones to judge that). Think of it this way: my relationship to my earthly father is settled by my birth, but my fellowship with him is dependent upon other factors such as how obedient I was to him when I was a child and how considerate I am to him today. If we are born again in baptism, how can we improve our fellowship with God and with each other?
I think Priscilla and Aquila showed us the way. We should pull people aside privately and discuss the scriptures with them in such a way that 1) we remain friends, 2) we remain open to the possibility of us being in the wrong on the issue and, 3) we maintain a sweet spirit of patience and grace.
Kami and I practice this. We have a small group Bible study in our home every Monday night. Half of the participants are not members of our religious tribe. We have Catholic and Pentecostal, fundamentalist and liberal all in one room. The thing that binds us together is mutual respect for each other and a desire to know and live out the truth. Our discussions don’t become heated, but there is passion in the various voices in the room. One member of our church who converted from a different religious tribe is in our small group and she bluntly tells stories of how the church of Christ scared her to death and offended her family… but she found a person who spoke to her in love and that changed everything. While she may not buy into everything a Famous Lectureship Speaker might say, she loves the Lord and is content in our fellowship because of the love, mercy, respect and dedication to the scripture that she sees there.
By all means, bring your friend to immersion and then rejoice with her regardless of where she then attends worship services. Make sure you stay in touch with her as often as you can. Set up weekly Bible studies if at all possible where you can — and this is critical — learn from each other. You will get a lot further if you both enter as seekers rather than Teacher/Student. She doesn’t need a Mister Miyagi, she needs a sweet brother in Christ.
And if I read your question right, I think that is what you are. If I could have a few hundred men and women with the sweet spirit shown in your question, we could take a city for Jesus.
May 25th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
By all means, bring your friend to immersion and then rejoice with her regardless of where she then attends worship services. Make sure you stay in touch with her as often as you can. Set up weekly Bible studies if at all possible where you can — and this is critical — learn from each other. You will get a lot further if you both enter as seekers rather than Teacher/Student. She doesn’t need a Mister Miyagi, she needs a sweet brother in Christ.
Their is so much that needs to be said. She has already been baptized in the RCC. So what makes this immersion so important? If the H2O is Poured or you are Dunked? Baptism is Baptism!
May 25th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Interesting that your response is filled with the need for a sweet spirit toward one another and the first comment so lacks that spirit. No wonder so many people don’t take Christianity seriously.
May 25th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
By all means, bring your friend to immersion and then rejoice with her regardless of where she then attends worship services.
Well lets try this, Why is imemerison so Sweet? and Pouring is not?
May 25th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
Fred, try reading a few of Patrick’s other entries about baptism and see what you think. Or, at least, what he thinks.
May 26th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
I Think if you make conversion through baptism imersion or otherwise the say all to what being a beleiver in our Lord is then I will say it is a poor motive. Baptism is not the goal here. being obedient to Christ is the goal, recognising sin, understanding scripture, a more scriptual focus, and realising it is sin that Christ died and rose for. this the important part. Not traditions and doctrines of men. Catholic or otherwise. When we make it about baptism which is a part no doubt, but when it becoms the focus as the means to an end I think we are seriously missing the point.
May 27th, 2009 at 12:25 am
1 Timothy 4:16
16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
(NIV)
Watch your “life” (how you live) and your “doctrine” (what you teach) closely, and you will save both yourself and your hearers.
I hope that this person continues to watch their doctrine closely regardless of where they end up. It seems to me that it’d be pretty tough to do that if they remained with the RCC.
May 29th, 2009 at 2:56 am
[QUOTE]up. It seems to me that it’d be pretty tough to do that if they remained with the RCC.[/QUOTE]
Why do you say this?
June 2nd, 2009 at 3:44 pm
My guess would be because the RCC might have a good bit of Matthew 23-type problems.
Oh, and that whole Mary thing, but that’s another blog for another time.
June 4th, 2009 at 5:08 am
Why can’t we be Christian’s like Paul, Peter, James. How were they saved? Were they Baptized? Did they Believe? Did they Repent?
There is every reason to believe the answer to all of your questions is “absolutely.”