203 — Evil and Final Things

Posted by Patrick Mead on Aug 31st, 2009

Some questions that come into tentpegsquestion@yahoo.com just don’t have snappy, complete, and satisfying answers. This fellow has a few of them all in one!

A friend and I discussed why God didn’t just destroy Lucifer when he rebelled, instead of tossing him down on earth to cause us trouble. We decided that God knew if there was no Lucifer, then free will wouldn’t mean much for us human folk. What do you think?

Was there Evil before Satan? Do Angels have free will choice?

Also, I wonder, will we be capable of anger, envy, selfishness etc. in heaven? I hope not. I wonder because…Satan was an angel who wanted to overthrow God. To get to that point it would seem logical that Satan must have been envious or jealous and felt anger etc. I’ve always been taught there will be no struggles, and “no tears” in heaven. I really hope that’s right, but I’m beginning to wonder. I remember that you said Satan was walking freely about Heaven in Job’s time. Now he doesn’t have that privilege, right? In the end, we know he is defeated. Is that what will make Heaven free of sin struggles?

I realize the answers to these kind of questions may not be available until we get to Heaven. I also realize that even if there are struggles, I still want to be there!! I like the odds of the team I’ll be struggling alongside.

First things first: the Bible doesn’t say there will be no tears in heaven. I know our songs do and a lot of preachers have told us that it will all be sunshine and lollipops up there, but God says several times that He will wipe away every tear from our eyes up there. That MAY mean that He will wipe away the tears that our time on this earth have caused or it MIGHT mean that our job and new mission in heaven might give us tears from time to time. Remember — the idea that heaven is an eternal worship service is an assumption made from the brief description we get of the welcome we will receive and our reaction to that. We really don’t know what we will be doing in heaven. We know it will be blessed and wonderful to be there, but that doesn’t mean we will be sitting on clouds and eating chocolate. While we are told we can rest from our labors there, we are also told that we will be serving the Lord forever. A couple of men who saw what was going on (Paul and John the Revelator spring to mind) were expressly told they couldn’t tell us what they saw. So… we wait.

The rest of this is complete conjecture on my part and should be read that way. As to why God didn’t destroy Lucifer as soon as he rebelled, the only reason I can come up with is that God loved him, too. Therefore, He didn’t destroy Lucifer for the same reason He didn’t destroy us when we first rebelled. Rather than be angry at God, we should recognize that that same character trait (grace, patience) has saved us time and time again.

For those who say “But God knows the future and so He knew what the devil would do throughout the ages” I would have to ask that they read back through this blog for the last six months or so and see that I don’t believe that and see my reasons. The future does not exist. Plato’s idea of a linear time that began in one point and ends in another definite point with one, unidirectional line in between has been shattered by our understanding of quantum physics (and physics as a whole). I do not have a future; I have billions of possible futures. Every step I take, every word I use, every decision I make or fail to make removes some of those choices and rolls millions out in their place. My past is a line and my present is a point, but my future is a trillion branched possibility, not a reality.

That is why God (in my opinion — please remember that) allowed Satan to enter heaven again and again. God tried the Flood, He tried the example of Job, He tried to show Satan how He (God) was full of grace and that people would respond to that. Little is directly said about Satan in the Old Testament as God continued to show the devil how foolish his opposition was. Only in the New Testament when the devil went directly after Jesus, God’s Son, did war break out in heaven (see Revelation 12). Jesus told his first set of messengers (those he sent out to Judea) that he saw Satan thrown out of heaven and falling like a star. The language there is not as precise as we would like and Jesus didn’t elucidate so we have to present our opinions about this with caution. In my opinion, Satan fell when he went directly against Jesus in his ministry. Others believe that Jesus was speaking of the future and Satan fell after the cross. I am sticking with the first idea. As soon as Jesus shows up in the first chapter of Mark, the demons are there waiting for him. Storms assail him as he crosses water to toss out other demons. Warfare is the major motif of the gospels.

As for us not having sin struggles in heaven, that is a fascinating subject. On the one hand, our tradition is very plain: once we get to heaven, all sin and struggle is gone forever. On the other hand, some in heaven rebelled once upon a time and I have to wonder if that might not be possible again. It would be stupid beyond belief, of course, but would it possible? I wouldn’t worry about this, by the way. It’s not as if you might make a mistake and get tossed out of heaven! Rebellion is a serious, purposeful act against God and even then, as we saw with Lucifer, God is not quick to pull the trigger and destroy the rebellious. God’s patience, love, and grace is so incredibly awe inspiring when you consider the history of the universe… and your own history.

5 Responses

  1. Danny Gill Says:

    Ooooh! Good questions! And fascinating answers (where there are answers). I love it when Christians think.

  2. Greg England Says:

    A simple question that has confounded mankind all of our existence! I like your answer.

    As for the “no tears in heaven” … how could God wipe away every tear (assuming, of course, this is a literal promise, which I don’t assume) if there were no tears in heaven to wipe away? I suppose it is supposed to sound good in the context of a funeral service.

  3. Steve Says:

    I had a question from your God and War lessons, which were illuminating! I am struggling with God and the issue of responsibility. Is the evil in this world not partly his responsibility because he has allowed the world to go on and hasn’t ended it yet, when he and only he has the power? If we argue on the grounds of free will, and that is why he hasn’t ended it, that doesn’t seem to work, because isn’t heaven in and of itself the lack of free will? Please comment on this or just email me your thoughts. I really respect your opinion and am praying for a resolution to this issue for me. Thanks and blessings!

  4. Keith Brenton Says:

    I feel like I’ve just responded the same way on John Alan Turner’s Faith 2.0 blog … but I believe that free will is part of The Really, Really Big Picture.

  5. Dee Andrews Says:

    Patrick -

    I’m about a week behind, but just have to say (1) I don’t know that I’ve ever even thought of these questions (which are terrific), much less thought through what the answers might be, but this post has been VERY enlightening for me – in a good way.

    Thanks, as always, for your deeply thought out and erudite responses.

    Dee

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