Why Do They Hate Us? question 210
I got this question a few weeks ago from a member of our congregation who wrote me at my office email account. I have edited her question down to the basic bits. It is, perhaps, one of the more important questions of our time.
I was watching the news about the 3 Muslims that were just convicted in England of plotting a plan to down 7 trans-Atlantic planes using liquid explosives in 2006. This would have killed over 1,500 people. Having crossed both the Atlantic and the Pacific myself, I became very scared. All I could think about was “why do they hate us so much?” I know about their teaching that if you are not a Muslim, you are an infidel, thus you should be killed. If that is so and is in their Quran, why do they say that the true Muslim religion is peaceful and is not like the radical Muslims? Is there more than one Quran? Just trying to understand.
Wow. This is such a multi-layered issue. I’ll hit the high points and I am sure some of my more informed commenters will help me fill in the gaps. First things first: there is only one Quran, though it is spelled Koran or Qu’ran or… you get the idea. Transliterating a word from Arabic to English is difficult. The Muslims will tell you that the Quran is completely untouched by human error; it is in the same form with the exact same words that were originally given to Mohammad by God via the angel Gabriel. They often laugh at our Bible for having so many versions. They claim it is impossibly corrupt while their Book is pristine and pure. Modern scholarship has shown the reliability of our Bible as it has also shown that the Quran isn’t nearly as pure as it is presented to be… but, still, they have just one of them. In fact, if you translate the Quran into English, it is no longer the Quran! It has to be in Arabic — and a particular form of Arabic — or it isn’t the Quran.
This allows them to deny any quotations you might want to use from their Book. For example, there are several passages that indicate that unbelievers should be killed, that Jews are not humans, etc. but when you bring those up and quote them in English, they may truthfully say “That is not what the Quran says” because you didn’t say it in Arabic.
I think it is of limited value to point out the violent bits in the Quran because the Bible also has some very violent and distasteful bits. We know the stories well and can explain them, but a quick reading of the verses would make one think that both the Bible and the Quran are equally bloodthirsty. There is no need to enter that argument.
As for why they hate us… there are many reasons.
1. We rejected them and their culture when we drove them out of Europe (which they had conquered earlier). They never again rose to that level of civilization. Their highest work in arts and science all occurred hundreds of years ago. Since then, they have lived in poverty (99% of them) unless they were lucky enough to be one of the tribal leaders — now styled “royalty” — who live in obscene wealth.
2. We support the Jews and Israel.
3. We drew arbitrary lines in the sand, making countries where there weren’t any before, separating families and tribes from each other, and putting despots in power over them. This began right after World War One and continues to this day. We are the ones who really put the Saudi royal family into that position. We armed and supported Saddam Hussein as long as he was anti-Iran, and we armed and supported Osama bin Laden in his war against Russia… and against anyone else who he didn’t like.
4. They see us as being the source of their pain and struggle. If we didn’t arm rival factions (and then switch sides), or arm their mortal enemy, Israel, and if we didn’t interfere with their religious call to take Islam all over the world (by any means necessary), they would be fine with us. After we convert. Or die. There’s no real easy way out of this mess.
5. They say that Islam is a religion of peace because the word itself means “peace.” Kind of. It really means the peace that comes when one side gives up the struggle and accepts the rule of another. I am reminded of the Celtic chieftain who said of the Romans, “They make a desert and call it peace.” This peace is available to you if you are willing to submit (“submission” is the other main definition of “Islam”) to the rule of Allah via the clerics.
6. Speaking of the clerics, if you think they hate us, you should see how much they hate each other. There are two main denominations of Islam (with a few smaller ones) but each denomination is, itself, divided — violently so.
7. They hate us because they consider us decadent. A Saudi prince cruising the world in a 265 foot yacht complete with 50 full time servants, a helicopter on the pad, gold toilets and taps, etc. is not decadent because he submits — he doesn’t let a woman drive a car or let a person listen to non-Islamic music, or touch his food with his left hand. YOU, on the other hand, watch skimpily clad women on TV, listen to secular music, etc. You are decadent and evil. The world is better off without you.
8. They hate us because we are weak. Since World War II, America and the West have avoided winning wars or standing up for what is right. In Vietnam, our brave troops won every single battle… and lost the war because of the cowards and idiots in Washington (LBJ would even pour over maps and tell the generals which bridges to bomb with how much armament, regardless of the reality of the battlefield he never visited). The Muslims see Clinton’s retreat from Somalia and the American Congress declaring through Reid and Pelosi that the Iraq war was lost and unwinnable (shortly after we started it) as proof that all they have to do is keep moving forward and Americans and the West will retreat. So far, they have been proven right most of the time. And no one respects a coward or a cowardly society.
9. They hate us because we are weak… part two. We are weak because we are over fed, over coddled, and ignorant (this is their view, remember. Don’t assume I’m talking for myself here!). We don’t suffer, we avoid it at all costs, and we entertain ourselves to death. They hate that and, therefore, they hate us. One of the reasons they hate it, by the way, is that our lives look so fun and full as to be attractive to them. Things that are pleasant and beautiful are also powerful and they fear that power (which is why they restrict women so horribly in so many ways).
There are more “reasons” but these will do for a start. The US has done a lot of things right but we have also made some horrible mistakes in the name of political expediency. That did not start the jihad against us… and neither did the Crusades. Jihad had been declared long before the first Crusade. However, our weakness, back tracking, and capriciousness have intensified the campaign against us.
September 29th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Patrick,
There is another way in which we are weak. We are weak in faith. As a nation, we have no faith any more. (Of course, I believe there is still a remnant, even in the USA.)
Passionate faith will defeat no faith, even if that passionate faith is in a false god or ideology. That is why the USA, as we have known it, is doomed – unless we develop some conviction, preferably conviction in the God of Heaven and His Son!
Your second paragraph’s lead sentence is one of the truest things ever said. Thank you for saying it.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
I think you’ve given a good synopsis of the reasons here, Patrick. The Crusades do play a part, even though jihad predates the Crusades. There is a lot of bad blood between Islam and the West, for want of a better term. It’s so convoluted that only God can sort it out, and only God can make it right.
I, too, like what you say, Jerry. I pray we do develop some conviction. I really believe that our weakness (moral, spiritual, political) is the biggest reason why we are vulnerable. We need passion.
September 29th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
Great post. Amen to Jerry’s comment! Seems I stand apart from most of my friends, but I don’t have a lot of confidence in the future of this nation. Nor do I have a lot of confidence in “Christianity” as we’ve known it … all the infighting and debating while the world goes to hell.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:04 am
Plus, it’s hard to miss if you aim at the biggest target.
America is the biggest target.
September 30th, 2009 at 3:56 am
Similar to Jerry’s comment, I’ve heard it said that “total commitment to half truth will always win out over half commitment to total truth”. I think the question to ourselves is, “How committed am I to the total Truth [of Jesus Christ]?”
September 30th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
We could ask the same question in reverse, why do we hate them.?
We each have been taught, and believe the other is controlled by Satan. And yes we hate each other for that very reason. When we go so far as to hunt each other down with the intent to kill, I do believe that is considered HATE!!! Ask a Christian if they believe the world would be a better place without Islam.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Funny, what I see among dedicated Christians is a number of efforts to evangelize Muslims. I’d hardly describe that as hate.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Danny, that is funny, because that is the same way they see you.
If you convert to Islam, they have no problem with you living.
Laymond, you have good points sometimes but it is comments such as those made on this particular blog that make so many people completely ignore you. Believe it or not, that saddens me. Try not to overreach. Christians — as a whole — do not hate Muslims nor do we place bombs on buses to kill their children. Yes, we are at war with the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Who started the war is a question historians will have to answer because it seems to have tentacles all the way back to Isaac and Ishamel. Still, Christians love Muslims and that is why they want to convert them. Most Muslims don’t want to kill Christians but it is estimated that 3-10% of them are radicals. When you see the total number of Muslims, that is a huge number of people who hate us. When Christians have control over a nation (or it is secular) Muslims have equal rights and benefits. When Muslims have control, Christians and Jews are semi-citizens at best, heavily taxed for the crime of not being Muslim. When Christians convert to Islam, we mourn their loss. When Muslims convert to Christianity, they are killed. These differences are not subtle and it is ignorance to try to make the two faiths equivalent in character or response.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Patrick, I love your blog!
and you have done a terrific job of synopsizing the Muslim faith and the differences between it and the Christian faith…. love your top 10 sort of list! However, I would take exception with your comment preceding the list.
“I think it is of limited value to point out the violent bits in the Quran because the Bible also has some very violent and distasteful bits” is your quote.
With respect, I completely disagree with the premise and the comparison. This worldview is terribly dangerous, and is akin to saying ‘their god (allah) is the same as ours’.
I have studied the Qu’ran and the Bible rather deeply, and to say that both books are equally violent, especially in an effort to minimize the pervasively militant and violent teachings of the former is irresponsible.
Simply put, the theme of the Qu’ran is – as you stated in your top 10 – forced submission of all non-believers (infidels). And, if infidels do not submit, they are to be exterminated.
That runs completely counter to the Biblical theme. …and indeed while there are ‘violent bits’ in each book, the Bible (especially in the New Testament) calls for tolerance and love and more of a ’seed-planting, take-it-or-leave-it’ approach to proselytizing… NOT a ‘you must submit and follow my Way or I must kill you’ approach.
Ask yourself this question as you ponder the issue:
“what is the logical result of a person or group following the teachings of the Qu’ran?”
then ask: “what is the logical result of a person or group following the teachings of the Bible?”
I firmly believe that THAT answer says it all.
TRUE BELIEVERS of the Qu’ran behave exactly like those who direct the ultra violent madrassas in places like Afghanistan.
TRUE BELIEVERS of the Bible behave, at worst, like overzealous Bible bangers who picket and march and preach on street corners… and at best, like Jesus.
We have bought the lie that the violence expressed in the events of 9/11 are an anomaly to the teachings of the Qu’ran. in an effort to marginalize them, we call them names like ‘extremists’ so we can sleep at night.
Tim, I don’t disagree with you or your points here. I am suggesting that throwing verses back and forth between Muslims and Christians isn’t the best tactic. There are better ways to reach them, in my opinion, and in comparing and contrasting the faiths. Unlike Laymond, I don’t try to make them roughly equal competing faiths. I know that Islam is a false religion and their book can’t compare to the Bible. Still, they say we take their sura out of context and we say they take our verses out of context. So… we need to be careful in how we approach them. Perhaps the phrase “wise as serpents, harmless as doves” applies here.
I would submit that that is not an accurate depiction. and while there are ‘peaceful Muslims’, those who follow the teachings of the Qu’ran look like the 22 men who killed a couple thousand innocent Americans on a cloudless fall day in 2001.
September 30th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Great post and a great summary of relations. I would like to add another reason I think they hate us. It has to do with the separation of church and state. While we see politics/sanctions/warfare as the U.S. government/society waging war against a nation (with Christianity not directly invoved or in control); they see it differently because they do not separate religion and state. They assume we are like them in this regard. Therefore they commonly conceive of Christians pressing their aims by dropping bombs, etc. Thus they see Christians as violent crusaders attacking them. They also see the U.S. attacking them as “Muslims”… not Iraqis or Afghanies. (This of course only applies in some states; others states would not have this predicament.)
I thought it of interest that the Taliban and even Al Queda seemed genuinely surprised when the U.S. retaliated after 9/11…that says something about their view of terrorism and war. I also thought it revealing when a news team showed footage of the September 11 tragedy to Muslim students in Lebanon. They were aghast. To them, before seeing the footage, it was akin to setting off a bomb at a local village market. The horror of what they saw set them back. Their replies, “This is not Islam,” and, “Are you sure Israel didn’t do it… It must have been Israel, not Muslims.” That is interesting to me.
Danny
September 30th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
Patrick, you do know they refer to us as the Great Satan, and if you talk to them you will see that they say the bible calls them children of Satan. and it does, they do not believe that Jesus is who he is and they will deny him all the way, which according to the bible is a lie, and liars also according to the bible are children of the one who created the lie, Satan. and if you believe Christians do not hate those who deny their Christ, I believe you sir are mistaken, many do. I know some “Christians” who hate anyone who disagrees with them, maybe not to the point of killing, but some do. why do you thing abortion doctors lives are in jeopardy? Christianity. No I don’t place Islam on a level with Christianity, Why because I am Christian.
October 1st, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Patrick, The original question was “why do they hate us so much?” I could be wrong but I supposed they were speaking of the United States not only Christians. I believe you brought the Christian factor in when you named the reasons they hate us.
As for why they hate us… there are many reasons.
1. We rejected them and their culture when we drove them out of Europe. (I don’t recall the U.S. doing that, please explain)
If you take the time to look at comments previous to my own, you will see that I did not initiate the Christian factor. I was only commenting on others comments. But naturally you see it differently. There is actually no reason for you to be saddened on my account, as a Christian I only accept information I glean from the Gospels.
October 2nd, 2009 at 6:25 pm
Here is some encouraging news: http://thepoint.breakpoint.org/tp-home/blog-archives/12931-islams-revolution-part-2
October 6th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
Don McLaughlin (maybe?) had some really interesting comments about this when he did a lecture one time — if my brain was working I could recall more of it.
I know the speaker was talking about flying to Egypt and talking to the tour guide about a murder that had recently taken place, and how the whole nation was in an uproar because of it.
I also think most Muslims believe the Saudi royals are just as decadent as the West — they’re just harder to pick on.
And no, Laymond, the Bible doesn’t call them children of Satan, but rather children of Ishmael. And their use of Satan makes more biblical sense than ours does, most times.
October 10th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
I highly recommend The Lost History of Christianity by Philip Jenkins. He’s a top-notch historian who does an excellent job of presenting the story of Eastern Christianity, a “Hidden People” to The Approved Story of Eurocentric Christianity if there ever was one.
Jenkins delves extensively into the early relationship between Christianity and Islam, especially in Northern Africa and Asia. We writes knowing that scholarly approval is currently heavily on the “Peaceful Islam, Warmongering Christianity” platform, and trying to undermine that while not grinding an axe.